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	<title>Comments for TINAG - This Is Not A Guide 2 Intalio</title>
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	<description>Just an attempt to Document &#38; Decode the Intalio Platform for Non-specialists</description>
	<lastBuildDate>Sun, 08 Feb 2009 09:59:39 +0000</lastBuildDate>
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		<title>Comment on What to model by Dealing with Time in Business Process Descriptions &#171; TINAG - This Is Not A Guide 2 Intalio</title>
		<link>http://intalio4people.wordpress.com/2008/11/09/what-to-model/#comment-68</link>
		<dc:creator>Dealing with Time in Business Process Descriptions &#171; TINAG - This Is Not A Guide 2 Intalio</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 08 Feb 2009 09:59:39 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://intalio4people.wordpress.com/2008/11/09/what-to-model-when-during-the-bp-project/#comment-68</guid>
		<description>[...] Recent Comments Dealing with Time in&#8230; on BPMN to BPEL: be&#160;carefulJosé D. De la Cruz on What You May Not&#160;ModelBPEL to BPMN: be car&#8230; on What to model -&#160;IIWhat to model - II &#8230; on A fiction to be automated &#8230;What to model - II &#8230; on What to&#160;model [...]</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>[...] Recent Comments Dealing with Time in&hellip; on BPMN to BPEL: be&nbsp;carefulJosé D. De la Cruz on What You May Not&nbsp;ModelBPEL to BPMN: be car&hellip; on What to model -&nbsp;IIWhat to model &#8211; II &hellip; on A fiction to be automated &hellip;What to model &#8211; II &hellip; on What to&nbsp;model [...]</p>
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		<title>Comment on BPMN to BPEL: be careful by Dealing with Time in Business Process Descriptions &#171; TINAG - This Is Not A Guide 2 Intalio</title>
		<link>http://intalio4people.wordpress.com/2008/12/09/bpmn-to-bpel-be-careful/#comment-67</link>
		<dc:creator>Dealing with Time in Business Process Descriptions &#171; TINAG - This Is Not A Guide 2 Intalio</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 08 Feb 2009 09:55:29 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://intalio4people.wordpress.com/?p=73#comment-67</guid>
		<description>[...] BPMN to BPEL: be&#160;careful [...]</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>[...] BPMN to BPEL: be&nbsp;careful [...]</p>
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		<title>Comment on What You May Not Model by José D. De la Cruz</title>
		<link>http://intalio4people.wordpress.com/2008/11/22/what-you-may-not-model/#comment-60</link>
		<dc:creator>José D. De la Cruz</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 09 Dec 2008 21:40:13 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://intalio4people.wordpress.com/2008/11/22/what-you-may-not-model/#comment-60</guid>
		<description>Thanks Sasha,
I agree with almost all your comments and your analysis of the potential solutions. 
The idea of this set of entries is to avoid to create some expectations on possible users of Intalio, specially the ones that want a more biz-oriented view of the BPs.
Most of them look for more abstract reasoning tools (risk, cost, etc.).
The advanced ones look for EA-enabled tools, and on change management. This means that the BP models should evolve, be stored and eventually several versions of the BP might be compared.
I would like to understand and to help understand what Intalio is good for, and also when it is not the right tool/approach.
Take care,

JDC</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Thanks Sasha,<br />
I agree with almost all your comments and your analysis of the potential solutions.<br />
The idea of this set of entries is to avoid to create some expectations on possible users of Intalio, specially the ones that want a more biz-oriented view of the BPs.<br />
Most of them look for more abstract reasoning tools (risk, cost, etc.).<br />
The advanced ones look for EA-enabled tools, and on change management. This means that the BP models should evolve, be stored and eventually several versions of the BP might be compared.<br />
I would like to understand and to help understand what Intalio is good for, and also when it is not the right tool/approach.<br />
Take care,</p>
<p>JDC</p>
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		<title>Comment on What to model &#8211; II by BPEL to BPMN: be careful &#171; TINAG - This Is Not A Guide 2 Intalio</title>
		<link>http://intalio4people.wordpress.com/2008/11/30/what-to-model-ii/#comment-59</link>
		<dc:creator>BPEL to BPMN: be careful &#171; TINAG - This Is Not A Guide 2 Intalio</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 09 Dec 2008 21:20:37 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://intalio4people.wordpress.com/2008/11/30/what-to-model-ii/#comment-59</guid>
		<description>[...] for modeling in BPMN. As in any language, in BPMN there are different levels (as I described in my last entry): lexical, syntactic, semantic and pragmatic. The two latter levels mean that not everything that [...]</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>[...] for modeling in BPMN. As in any language, in BPMN there are different levels (as I described in my last entry): lexical, syntactic, semantic and pragmatic. The two latter levels mean that not everything that [...]</p>
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		<title>Comment on A fiction to be automated &amp; the introduction of an Orchestrator in the Business Process by What to model - II &#171; TINAG - This Is Not A Guide 2 Intalio</title>
		<link>http://intalio4people.wordpress.com/2008/06/02/a-fiction-to-be-automated-the-introduction-of-an-orchestrator-in-the-business-process/#comment-58</link>
		<dc:creator>What to model - II &#171; TINAG - This Is Not A Guide 2 Intalio</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 30 Nov 2008 12:57:28 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://intalio4people.wordpress.com/2008/06/02/a-fiction-to-be-automated-the-introduction-of-an-orchestrator-in-the-business-process/#comment-58</guid>
		<description>[...] The process logic will tell the orchestrator if a given task should actually be triggered [...]</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>[...] The process logic will tell the orchestrator if a given task should actually be triggered [...]</p>
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		<title>Comment on What to model by What to model - II &#171; TINAG - This Is Not A Guide 2 Intalio</title>
		<link>http://intalio4people.wordpress.com/2008/11/09/what-to-model/#comment-57</link>
		<dc:creator>What to model - II &#171; TINAG - This Is Not A Guide 2 Intalio</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 30 Nov 2008 12:57:24 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://intalio4people.wordpress.com/2008/11/09/what-to-model-when-during-the-bp-project/#comment-57</guid>
		<description>[...] BASIC THINGS TO MODELAs I showed in a previous entry, a process model in Intalio is a description of what you actually do, in the form of tasksSome [...]</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>[...] BASIC THINGS TO MODELAs I showed in a previous entry, a process model in Intalio is a description of what you actually do, in the form of tasksSome [...]</p>
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		<title>Comment on What You May Not Model by AS</title>
		<link>http://intalio4people.wordpress.com/2008/11/22/what-you-may-not-model/#comment-56</link>
		<dc:creator>AS</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 24 Nov 2008 18:52:49 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://intalio4people.wordpress.com/2008/11/22/what-you-may-not-model/#comment-56</guid>
		<description>The child who receives a hammer for Christmas will discover that everything needs pounding

Sure, but we are consultants yet.



    * If you intend to compute the organizational performance a priori (via benchmarking the working capacity of the organizational units in a company), Intalio may not be the tool you’re looking for.

How are going to evaluate “working capacity” WITHOUT executable processes?


    * If you want to compute process time or process cost, this cannot be done directly. You should wait until having an executable process, and then this may be feasible. However, there are other tools that may fit much better this requirement.

May be we have to execute differently an executable business process model from Intalio? The model is still OK.


    * If you need just to replace a composite application, and you focus on low-level notions (synchronous and asynchronous communications), be warned that Intalio and BPM do not include those kinds of primitives directly, and that your modeling can be uncomfortable. 
There are plenty of BPEL-level modeling tools that might fulfill your requirements directly. 

“houses for courses” is applicable for Intalio by definition, but how it is linked to BPM?


    * If you already have a model process written in some other language like EPC, UML, OSSAD, b-Flow… do not expect to find plug-ins that will help you import/translate.

This is reasonable because a model in UML has to be re-thought BEFORE being in BPMN, by definition.


    * If your requirements do include the creation of a process framework (or a process library/reference), know that Intalio does not provide any process repository functionality. You should build one of your own.

Can a poor-man solution (i.e. SVN) help to avoid such a build?


    * If there is not need for an executable BP as a result of the modeling effort, you’re not going to use the maximum capacity of Intalio… :-(

Yes, but “be ready” to be executable is a great advantage vs a Visio-like diagrams. 


    * If you have no need of rigorous semantics that help you build valid and correct Biz Process models, just use any drawing tool with the notation you prefer.

The main reason to draw a business process is to achieve good understanding between stakeholders of this process. If you draw it without “rigorous semantics” then you may expect the similar return.

Thanks,
AS</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>The child who receives a hammer for Christmas will discover that everything needs pounding</p>
<p>Sure, but we are consultants yet.</p>
<p>    * If you intend to compute the organizational performance a priori (via benchmarking the working capacity of the organizational units in a company), Intalio may not be the tool you’re looking for.</p>
<p>How are going to evaluate “working capacity” WITHOUT executable processes?</p>
<p>    * If you want to compute process time or process cost, this cannot be done directly. You should wait until having an executable process, and then this may be feasible. However, there are other tools that may fit much better this requirement.</p>
<p>May be we have to execute differently an executable business process model from Intalio? The model is still OK.</p>
<p>    * If you need just to replace a composite application, and you focus on low-level notions (synchronous and asynchronous communications), be warned that Intalio and BPM do not include those kinds of primitives directly, and that your modeling can be uncomfortable.<br />
There are plenty of BPEL-level modeling tools that might fulfill your requirements directly. </p>
<p>“houses for courses” is applicable for Intalio by definition, but how it is linked to BPM?</p>
<p>    * If you already have a model process written in some other language like EPC, UML, OSSAD, b-Flow… do not expect to find plug-ins that will help you import/translate.</p>
<p>This is reasonable because a model in UML has to be re-thought BEFORE being in BPMN, by definition.</p>
<p>    * If your requirements do include the creation of a process framework (or a process library/reference), know that Intalio does not provide any process repository functionality. You should build one of your own.</p>
<p>Can a poor-man solution (i.e. SVN) help to avoid such a build?</p>
<p>    * If there is not need for an executable BP as a result of the modeling effort, you’re not going to use the maximum capacity of Intalio… <img src='http://s.wordpress.com/wp-includes/images/smilies/icon_sad.gif' alt=':-(' class='wp-smiley' /> </p>
<p>Yes, but “be ready” to be executable is a great advantage vs a Visio-like diagrams. </p>
<p>    * If you have no need of rigorous semantics that help you build valid and correct Biz Process models, just use any drawing tool with the notation you prefer.</p>
<p>The main reason to draw a business process is to achieve good understanding between stakeholders of this process. If you draw it without “rigorous semantics” then you may expect the similar return.</p>
<p>Thanks,<br />
AS</p>
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		<title>Comment on What You May Not Model by Antoine Toulme</title>
		<link>http://intalio4people.wordpress.com/2008/11/22/what-you-may-not-model/#comment-55</link>
		<dc:creator>Antoine Toulme</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 24 Nov 2008 10:10:21 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://intalio4people.wordpress.com/2008/11/22/what-you-may-not-model/#comment-55</guid>
		<description>Intalio would like to help with your hammer, and taking your analogy further, with the developer edition and the enterprise edition, we intend to deliver different types of them.
We also welcome feedback on what you&#039;d like to see in the product, if you need an import from a specific tool you can contact d3@intalio.com to file for it.

Thanks for the feedback!</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Intalio would like to help with your hammer, and taking your analogy further, with the developer edition and the enterprise edition, we intend to deliver different types of them.<br />
We also welcome feedback on what you&#8217;d like to see in the product, if you need an import from a specific tool you can contact <a href="mailto:d3@intalio.com">d3@intalio.com</a> to file for it.</p>
<p>Thanks for the feedback!</p>
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		<title>Comment on What to model by David Ouakil</title>
		<link>http://intalio4people.wordpress.com/2008/11/09/what-to-model/#comment-53</link>
		<dc:creator>David Ouakil</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 13 Nov 2008 22:28:24 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://intalio4people.wordpress.com/2008/11/09/what-to-model-when-during-the-bp-project/#comment-53</guid>
		<description>Interesting, effective and well detailed entry Diego :)</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Interesting, effective and well detailed entry Diego <img src='http://s.wordpress.com/wp-includes/images/smilies/icon_smile.gif' alt=':)' class='wp-smiley' /> </p>
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		<title>Comment on What to model by rusty russel</title>
		<link>http://intalio4people.wordpress.com/2008/11/09/what-to-model/#comment-52</link>
		<dc:creator>rusty russel</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 10 Nov 2008 15:04:40 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://intalio4people.wordpress.com/2008/11/09/what-to-model-when-during-the-bp-project/#comment-52</guid>
		<description>Technology is indeed the type of thing that needs to be used properly in order for it to be effective.  BPM software, coupled with work flow software has revolutionized all levels of business.  Being able to visualize business processes and add automation to them has led to further optimization and efficiency.

The need to use BPM software properly requires that your as-is processes are documented properly. Only then can you design and implement to-be processes that reflect a fully optimized process.  

I work company that was searching for a BPM suite to implement and we ran into the exact issue of being able to map our as-is processes effectively.  We, unlike many airlines, realized that this stage in process planning was absolutely imperative.  We enlisted the services of a &lt;a HREF=&quot;http://www.interfacing.com/Products&quot; rel=&quot;nofollow&quot;&gt;BPM software&lt;/A&gt; and consulting company called &lt;a HREF=&quot;http://www.interfacing.com/&quot; rel=&quot;nofollow&quot;&gt; Interfacing Technologies Corporation &lt;/A&gt;.  They came into our company, mapped our current processes and helped us optimize them.  We were so impressed with their services that we ended up implementing their &lt;a HREF=&quot;http://interfacing.com/Products/enterprise-bpm/&quot; rel=&quot;nofollow&quot;&gt; Enterprise Process Center &lt;/A&gt;, their BPM suite.  

That said, many people find that using consulting services for small projects is a waste of money.  Instead, before implementing BPM projects and mapping your processes, I suggest taking an &lt;a HREF=&quot;http://interfacing.com/business-process-management-solutions/oceb-training-2/&quot; rel=&quot;nofollow&quot;&gt; OCEB (OMG Certificed Expert in BPM) Training course&lt;/A&gt;, or a &lt;A&gt; BPM training course &lt;/A&gt;.  The courses are relatively cheap, and give you a comprehensive knowledge on how to map your business processes properly so that your company does not spend their money optimizing a bad process.

Once you&#039;ve done this, I suggest using one of the &lt;a HREF=&quot;http://www.interfacing.com/free-visio-bpmn-modeler&quot; rel=&quot;nofollow&quot;&gt;100% Free BPMN Modeling &lt;/A&gt; programs - a few of them are ad-ons to Microsoft Visio.  They allow you to get started with your process mapping right away.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Technology is indeed the type of thing that needs to be used properly in order for it to be effective.  BPM software, coupled with work flow software has revolutionized all levels of business.  Being able to visualize business processes and add automation to them has led to further optimization and efficiency.</p>
<p>The need to use BPM software properly requires that your as-is processes are documented properly. Only then can you design and implement to-be processes that reflect a fully optimized process.  </p>
<p>I work company that was searching for a BPM suite to implement and we ran into the exact issue of being able to map our as-is processes effectively.  We, unlike many airlines, realized that this stage in process planning was absolutely imperative.  We enlisted the services of a <a HREF="http://www.interfacing.com/Products" rel="nofollow">BPM software</a> and consulting company called <a HREF="http://www.interfacing.com/" rel="nofollow"> Interfacing Technologies Corporation </a>.  They came into our company, mapped our current processes and helped us optimize them.  We were so impressed with their services that we ended up implementing their <a HREF="http://interfacing.com/Products/enterprise-bpm/" rel="nofollow"> Enterprise Process Center </a>, their BPM suite.  </p>
<p>That said, many people find that using consulting services for small projects is a waste of money.  Instead, before implementing BPM projects and mapping your processes, I suggest taking an <a HREF="http://interfacing.com/business-process-management-solutions/oceb-training-2/" rel="nofollow"> OCEB (OMG Certificed Expert in BPM) Training course</a>, or a <a> BPM training course </a>.  The courses are relatively cheap, and give you a comprehensive knowledge on how to map your business processes properly so that your company does not spend their money optimizing a bad process.</p>
<p>Once you&#8217;ve done this, I suggest using one of the <a HREF="http://www.interfacing.com/free-visio-bpmn-modeler" rel="nofollow">100% Free BPMN Modeling </a> programs &#8211; a few of them are ad-ons to Microsoft Visio.  They allow you to get started with your process mapping right away.</p>
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